| Would you call the police raid on the church '' a huge violation of the privacy of people''? for mostly men (catholic priests) now in their 60s and 70s — who have lived with the shame of abuse. Pope deplores Belgian sex raids, stresses autonomy: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100628/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_belgium Religion & Spirituality - 15 Answers Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions : 1 : No If the church had been open about what has been happening worldwide for decades then they might have a case. As it is, Ratzinger and his cronies have been failing to deal with the criminals themselves and covering up systematic abuse. They've lost any right to complain about privacy because that's precisely what they have abused. Let's get it all out in the open 2 : No, I'd call it a police investigation. 3 : Nah its fine they deserve everything they get and more so does the pope 4 : Of course, but that's what the police are for, they trump people's rights to enforce their other rights which are deemed much more important. The police are within their right. 5 : I don't know - is it a worse "invasion of privacy" than being anally raped? 6 : It's not violation of privacy when the police have probable cause and, a warrant. 7 : Nope. The church has to be subject to common law. 8 : 1) the police *should* only raid when they have cause I don't know about the law in Belgium, but I imagine it's similar to the UK.... Police cannot carry out an exploratory raid just to get information. 2) if they have cause, then it would probably be in the form of information about a priest (or priests) - therefore it is not a raid 'on the church' it is a raid on alleged paedophiles. 3) the church should not have autonomy to do anything, anywhere - that goes for any religious group 4) the pope should be able to see that his words and actions on this matter are harming his church.... forget 'divine inspiration'... this should be simple common sense. 5) since point 4) is so obvious it seems that something deeper is at the heart of this.... I believe that the pope is simply trying to protect the assets of the church...... bottom line.... Money [edit] @ father Joe below "When the police come to desecrate the graves and tombs of your dead loved ones....." Hyperbole, much? " The Church has been extremely cooperative in these investigations of alleged crimes" tell that to the Irish people, Bishops and the Garda have been shown to have worked hand in hand to prevent these cases going through any investigative process outside the church. "that occurred decades ago. These crimes occurred in the forties, fifties and sixties." yes, because none of this happens now {rolleyes} although I do accept that it is harder for ANY paedophile ANYWHERE to cover up things, thse days "Could that be why these accusations are coming now when there is restitution money being paid." And the church is doing it's level best to protect it's riches even committing FRAUD and declaring bankruptcy in some cases see : http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=xprnw.20100624.LA26246&show_article=1 - makes you wonder - WFWJD What fraud would jesus do? "But the Church is just trying to do the charitable thing" oh come on!!....... in many cases the church has offered pitiable sums to real, mentally damaged victims of it's policies "The Church under the leadership has purged the Church of these evil men and have made the Church the safest place for children." On which planet is this? "Priests have always been the least likely of all adult groups of being pedophiles." please cite sources... preferably ones outside your denomination, because, to be frank, this is rubbish ------------- Reading your post is like reading the bible.... it is internally self contradictory, unbelievable, full of wishfull thinking and wants to portray a martyr where none really exists 9 : It looks like Bible prophecy being fulfilled (Revelation 17:15-18) 15 And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. 18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.†10 : Oh yeah, sooooo unprecedented. You might even call it a "witch hunt". Not. ::eyeroll:: 11 : The church permitted and thereby sanctioned the abuse of their priests on children. This has gone on for years and only because the church's political clout and power has lessened is it now possible for the authorities to do something about it. It is too late for the church to say, 'let us address the problem ourselves' -- way too late. Let them reap what they sowed, it is God's way. Let judgment begin with those claiming to serve God. 12 : When the police come to desecrate the graves and tombs of your dead loved ones will you continue to believe that they are within their rights? When they invade your churches will you be so quick to say that they did the right thing? This just shows that people hate the Church just as Jesus said we would be hated as He was hated. Sometimes turning the other cheek to insults and attacks is very difficult and their comes a time to speak out against profound abuse of power by the government. The Church has been extremely cooperative in these investigations of alleged crimes that occurred decades ago. These crimes occurred in the forties, fifties and sixties. Most of the alleged perpetrators are dead and unable to defend themselves. Could that be why these accusations are coming now when there is restitution money being paid. All of a sudden there are hundreds of people claiming abuse decades after the alleged occurrence. Does no one else see the financial incentive for these people far outweighs their desire to tell the truth. Their greed is apparent and it is shameful. But the Church is just trying to do the charitable thing towards those people where some of them may indeed be victims of evil men who sneaked into the priesthood to prey on children. Greed encourages people to take advantage of this charity. The Church under the leadership has purged the Church of these evil men and have made the Church the safest place for children. Priests have always been the least likely of all adult groups of being pedophiles. In fact priests are statistically many times less like to commit such an offense than any other clergy but you do not see the authorities going into the graves and tombs of Protestant, Muslim or Jewish clergy looking for who knows what and seizing computers and records. The Church has been fully cooperating with these civil authorities and even doing its own investigation as well. And, the Church has been the greatest voice in condemning these evil men who did these crimes. Is common sense and decency being wholly concealed here by unjustified hatred? Reasonable people not motivated by hate should see the abuse by the civil authorities and demand that the investigation change from a mob mentality of finding anyone to punish to real fact finding which reveals real criminal activity. Don't you think? God bless! In Christ Fr. Joseph 13 : The Catholic Church has no problem with ordinary legal proceedings (including reasonable search and seizure) but what happened in this case was a bit excessive. If your father died and then later was accused of a horrible crime, wouldn't you be a bit upset if they dug him up and searched his coffin for hidden files? With love in Christ. 14 : I find this part of the story intriguing... "The Catholic panel had been in existence for over a decade, but for most of that time, it dealt with only 30 complaints and took no discernible action on them. Since Adriaenssens took over eight weeks ago, hundreds of men and boys had come forward and the panel received nearly 500 complaints." It seems interesting to me that the revelations of abuse for so many coincide with the recent revelations that the Bishop has made admitting abuse himself. I echo Fr. joseph's sentiments that some of these claims must be logically considered suspect especially if waged against the dead. Clearly it was a violation of the doctor/patient confidentiality and even if you can't jump to support the church you must see it as only another offense to the legitimate victims. The Dr.'s credentials are presumably in order in the field of child psychology. The Doctor interviewed patients and kept files in strict confidentiality...those testimonies, have been violated and presumably are inadmissible in court.... but who knows? It seems when the church cries for the same rights for which it has vehemently argued for for centuries it falls on some deaf ears. Huge violation of the privacy of people? You bet. Anyone who can't see it is blind. 15 : The "rights" of now-old men could never trump the rights of the children they allegedly abused. However, some semblance of mercy tempering justice would seem to be reasonable. |
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